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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
One photo of the exhaust ;)


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Posts: 3172
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks Fabian for uploading the photo and sending me the drawings of that muffler box.

Below you can see Fabian's muffler box drawings, however if you want to get it in better quality, I opened a new topic at "Tutorials" section where you can get the original high quality PDF from Fabian. You can get it clicking at the next link: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=996

Greets,
Hugo

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Thanks you for uploading the drawings ;)
I´ve already made a video of my rumi with the new muffer-box and it´s new sound :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chgrW6HcqmA

Best regards
Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Niiiice sound!!!!!!! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm
Posts: 485
Location: South Wales UK
Fabian, what is your top speed in 3rd gear?

Ian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Today I´ve tried to measure my top speed in the third gear and suddenly my engine made huge problems.
It was almost impossible to start the engine because the revolution speed always dropped and the engine died.
After a few attempts the engine was running better at low revolution speed, but it was impossible to go for a ride
because at a middle revolution speed level the engine couldn´t get faster and a few ignitions didn´t occour.
Please help me, I´ve already had this problem a few times but I can´t find the reason for it.
On the video from yesterday you can see that everything worked fine and today it didn´t.
Here is also a video from today to show the problem to you :(



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTUT9e1wnA

Please help me
Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:18 pm
Posts: 1501
Sounds as the motor have intermittent ignition on one cylinder.
Could very well be a condensor problem...

I had a similar problem years ago, with motor not taking revs. - faltering ignition, with slow acceleration.
I tried alot, without succes - then, by chance, I installed new condensors - and as by magic, the motor responded instantly, with high revs, and brisk accleration!

PS: I guess you have tried all "the usual suspects"?
Switching ignition leads
Used new copper cored ignition leads
Switching/renewing plugs
Seen to a god flow of petrol to the carb(s)
Controlled the tiny air-hole in the petrol cap
Seen to, the firing point had nor moved, by accident
And, and, etc...


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
The fuel-flow to the engine is working and the carburator was cleaned last week.
The ingition spark seems to be very strong for both spark plugs when I screw them out and try them outside,
but the plugs were very dark -> the fuel wasn´t burned to 100%. (I think the carborator has the right setting)
Could that be an indicator for a problem with the condensors?
The last thing I have not tried till now is the ignition timing, but I made the setup for it a few months ago and the ignitions seems to be at the right moment.

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:18 pm
Posts: 1501
Firstly, you should know you can have a perfect spark, as long as the plug is outside of the cylinder...
The compression INSIDE the cylinder, can have a drastic effect on the spark, but unfortunately, you will never recognize it!

Sooty, black plugs, tells a story.
Either, that the plug hasnt fired at all, or had fired intermittently.
Or, the carburettors are giving an all too "fat" mixture, which cant be burnt correctly.

Still, I would count on the condensors beeing faulty.


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
And where could I get two new condensors? :o

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
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Location: Amsterdam
fabianlesch wrote:
And where could I get two new condensors? :o

Fabian


Hi Fabian,

I am not the best person to give technical advises, however I have been in a similar situation than you about the condensors, the different is that I bought two brand new without knowing actually if they would fit at the bike.

Clicking at this link you can read my worries and the reply from David (UHJ200). Look at here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=693&p=5565&hilit=condensors+bicarburatore+new#p5565

Good luck solving your problem. Once I had a similar situation and eventually I find out that I didn't tight strong enough the screws of one of the break points. It moved and the bike started going very bad. Once I adjusted it again everything was working fine.

Have a look at this will take you a few minutes. I think is worth it to have a look.

Best regards,
Hugo

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Now I´ve made a new setup for the ignition timing and afterwords I´ve tried it again.
Today it was really awesome. A lot more power than all times before and a very smooth sound.

I hope that everything will work tomorrow as well :D

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:37 am 
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fabianlesch wrote:
Now I´ve made a new setup for the ignition timing and afterwords I´ve tried it again.
Today it was really awesome. A lot more power than all times before and a very smooth sound.

I hope that everything will work tomorrow as well :D

Fabian


Morning Fabian, these are great news!!, congratulation for your success. Now enjoy the bike!!! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
The last thing i have problems with is the cold start. I´m not able to start the cold engine with the kick-starter. :?
Could anyone of you give me a tip for the cold start of the formichino?

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
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Location: Amsterdam
Hi Fabian,

I was in the same situation as you with my Bicarburatore, impossible to start with the kickstarter, however, following Ian's instructions I managed to start the bike using the kickstarter.

This is what he recommended:

To start.
Turn on fuel, wait for 10 seconds.
Depress both chokes fully.
Quick as you like, depress the float bowl tickler fully THREE times.
Kick only 3 times. When it starts, use the twist grip to help the revs go up and then pull up both chokes.

If you don't get any thing in the first thee kicks after the preparation that I recommended, pull up the chokes an three more kicks.
If it still refuses to fire, pushing is the next option.


Please let us know if this also works for you.

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Thanks for the help, I will try it several times and willl tell you afterwards, if it worked :)

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
The starting tip is great. It worked with the first kick.
BUT the old problems are coming back :cry:
The engine dies at low revolutions and I think the problem is the ignition spark.
I think it has too little power because during the ride there are a few ignitions with a lot more power.
If I turn of all the lights the engine is running a little bit better.

hugomez, you ment that I should change the condensor, but which?
The two for the ignitions, or the smaler one next to the generator?

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
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Location: Amsterdam
Hi Fabian, good that Ian's kickstarter technique works fine also for you ;)

Lasse recommended you to replace the condensers, I do not have technical knowledges enough to recommend such a thing.
I just mentioned that I replaced them in my Bicarburatore, and when I did it I was in the same situation that you, I didn't know which type of condensers I needed to buy. The once I bought seem to works fine so far at my bike.

If I am correct, you should have at the rotor plate just two condensers, or a single double one. Perhaps somebody with more experience can tell you what to do.

In my case I also replaced both coils, these once: http://www.ebay.de/itm/ZUNDSPULE-6V-UNI ... 0950093471 However I do not know if you should do it or not. Hopefully somebody can give you proper advises based in good knowledges.

Greets ;)
Hugo

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
The coils are new, they were replaced during the restoration through new ones ;)
I will take the old condensor (it´s only one) out and bring it to a dealer.
Let´s see what will happen :mrgreen:

Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:13 pm 
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fabianlesch wrote:
......
I will take the old condensor (it´s only one) out and bring it to a dealer.
Let´s see what will happen :mrgreen:


Good luck with it, keep us update :)

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
I got the speedo last week an mounted it a few days ago.
Today i´ve already mounted the new double condensor from a kawasaki 690.
Now everything is working great and I hope the legalisation will work without any problems :mrgreen:

With best regards
Fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Location: Amsterdam
fabianlesch wrote:
I got the speedo last week an mounted it a few days ago.
Today i´ve already mounted the new double condensor from a kawasaki 690.
Now everything is working great and I hope the legalisation will work without any problems :mrgreen:

With best regards
Fabian


Hi Fabian,

Does this mean that the problems you have been experiencing in your last tests have been complete fixed with that new double condenser from kawasaki?

Best regards ;)
Hugo

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Yes, I think so. Today everything worked perfect. The cold start was no big deal as well :)

Best regards
fabian


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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:09 am 
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fabianlesch wrote:
Yes, I think so. Today everything worked perfect. The cold start was no big deal as well :)

Best regards
fabian



That is awesome, congratulation!! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: too low top speed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 68
Hey, I think it´s time for a little review since one year passed.

My self-made exhaust is still working but it´s too loud to get the rumi legalised.
Therefore it will be necessary to build a new one, again :?
A huge problem is the little space below the engine which makes it impossible to build a good working reso which also turns down the sound.
The other problem with the last exhaust was the missing performance improvement.
I think the back pressure of the exhaust was to little for the engine.

Now I will try to rebuild something similar to the original exhaust.
I thought about seperated chambers in the exhaust for both cylinders and a cone at the beginning of the exhaust for each cylinder to make sure that all exhaust particles are gone from inside the cylinders.
After these cones I would leave some space to the following shields as used in the original exhaust. These shields should create the needed back pressure for the engine.

Maybe one of you has another idea to improve the following exhaust? :)

Fabian


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