Bol D'Or - New Project

Talk about anything you feel like
Ian Skinner
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: South Wales UK

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Ian Skinner » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:25 pm

Hi Rudolph

These pistons were supplied by Rumi Club France from an engine component manufacturer in Portugal. I have been using them for the last ten years in all of my Rumi engine rebuilds. The club informs me, that they have never received a complaint with any of them.

Ian

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:29 am

Hi,

I put myself the packing inside the muffler box with the grill in between. No obstructions along the path.

Right now the pipes are out of the engine, so I can clearly see that both entrance are ok with nothing covering it. The pipes are also ok.

More soon :)
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

RUMISTI
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 am

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by RUMISTI » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:33 pm

Hi Ian,
I do not doubt the quality of this piston, have found only on the basis of the surface structure, that it may not be Italian piston.
Let us all hope that Hugo will soon succeed.
Rudolf

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:40 pm

Hi Lars,

After listening all the advises i have got here and by private, I took the decision to assemble everything and go to the inspection as it is. Then I will run the bike for a while to see it the RIGHT cylinder start behaving better with some kilometers on it.

Before I mount the carburetors, I took a few more photos.

First at all I have check if when the pistons are in TDC, the intake port is completely opened. The answer is yes. (NO photos from that position)

However I have notice something with the piston in another position. Perhaps is nothing to worry about, but I share it with you anyway to see what you think. (You can see the photos below)

With the "A" at the flywheel, aligned with the "O" at the crankcase, if I look both pistons, the LEFT side is a bit more "down" that the RIGHT side. It is very little, around a millimetre as you can see.
Moto-Rumi-cylinder-A-aligned-O.jpg
Moto-Rumi-cylinder-A-aligned-O.jpg (76.82 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___01.jpg
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___01.jpg (91.22 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___02.jpg
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___02.jpg (55.34 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
Moto-Rumi-RIGHT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___01.jpg
Moto-Rumi-RIGHT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___01.jpg (69.77 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
Moto-Rumi-RIGHT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___02.jpg
Moto-Rumi-RIGHT_cylinder-A-aligned-O___02.jpg (49.27 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_and_RIGHT_cylinders-A-aligned-0.jpg
Moto-Rumi-LEFT_and_RIGHT_cylinders-A-aligned-0.jpg (40.98 KiB) Viewed 10721 times
I just want to remind that both break points start opening for both cylinders at 2.2 mm BTDC, and the max. opening gap at the break points is 0.35mm

Do you think I should worry about what we see at these photos?

Thanks
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lars
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:09 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:17 pm

Hi Hugo,
My first reaction is that it is nothing to worry about. I believe what you see here is just the difficulty of getting the pistons in exactly the same position by following the timing marks. Who knows how accurately those marks were engraved, and besides, they are far away from each other, making them difficult to align with any amount of precision.

If the pistons really were at the exact same position, say 2,2 mm BDC, and they still showed this difference, I would be a little worried at least. It would tell us that the pistons were of different heights (or the cylinder ports at slightly different heights). But I doubt that they are. To be sure, you would have to find a way to measure the piston position with greater accuracy (dial gauge or similar). You could try with a sliding caliper, but it is not easy.

Probably an easier way to check the piston height in the assembled engine is to feel with the finger inside the port at TDC. You should feel the edge of the piston just barely above the port. If I remember correctly, it is only a question of a few tenths of a mm above the port. If one of the pistons would be a whole mm higher, you would easily feel the difference, I believe.

Lars
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:09 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:20 pm

Of course I meant to say 2,2 mm before TDC. /Lars

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:06 pm

Hi Lars,

I just took another two photos. In this case both pistons are in BDC. As you can see, it is possible to see a bit more of the LEFT piston ring, than of the RIGHT piston ring.

I have the impression that the intake port of the LEFT cylinder is slightly more up front than the RIGHT cylinder's intake port.

If that is the case, would that be a major problem?

Greets,
Hugo
Moto-Rumi-Pistons-at-BDC.jpg
Moto-Rumi-Pistons-at-BDC.jpg (59.18 KiB) Viewed 10542 times
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lars
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:09 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:08 am

Hi Hugo,
No, not a serious problem. Small differences in port timing like this will affect the performance to some degree. But it will not cause a cylinder not to fire.

It is something to keep in mind, though, and to investigate in the future. It is the first sign we have seen that something is slightly different between left and right cylinder. Could be either the piston or the cylinder that is not exactly identical.

I don't think it should change your plans of just running the engine some more before you make any other decision. My opinion only. Would be interesting to hear what other members of the forum think. /Lars

Ian Skinner
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: South Wales UK

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Ian Skinner » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:51 am

Well Guys, it looks like standard Rumi engineering to me, in fact not that bad!!

Ian

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:08 am

Hi Lars and Ian,

Thanks for let me know.

I will put the carburetors and the bike will be ready for the inspection. Now I will focus in the documentation I will bring there.

To satisfy the curiosity of the inspector, I was told to bring as more original (or copy of the original) documentation as possible. Factory brochures, parts manuals, user manual, etc.. (among other things)

If any member of the forum that read this have something that you may think can be useful to present to this person, I would appreciate if you can send it to me by email. :D

Enjoy your Sunday!!
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Ian Skinner
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: South Wales UK

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Ian Skinner » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:53 am

Well Hugo

Formchino.com, Manuals section, probably contains all that there is in the World? Go for a Formi owners manual and a parts manual.

Ian

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:21 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: thanks Ian.

Of course I already prepare some files from there, but as more I bring to the inspector, the better to satisfy him. :D
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Ian Skinner
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: South Wales UK

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Ian Skinner » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:47 pm

You could be right, but I always believe in quickly getting to the point!

Ian

arthur lewthwaite
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:25 pm

take your first formachino along and the bol dor,take pictures of rumi images on the computer to show the difference between the two,what more would he need.

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:49 pm

Hi,

I can happily say that the little Bol D'Or has passed the inspection to get the Dutch documentation :D

Below the photo waiting to start early this morning.
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-inspection-day-01.jpg
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-inspection-day-01.jpg (75.14 KiB) Viewed 10981 times
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lasse
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:51 pm

Congratulations!
And how did the motor run on the way to inspection, and back again?

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:09 pm

Lasse wrote:Congratulations!
And how did the motor run on the way to inspection, and back again?
Thanks Lasse,

Well, I had the appointment at 7.45AM, so I took the safest way for two reasons.
First I didn't want to wake up the complete neighborhood that early in the morning putting the engine in very high revolutions to get the RIGHT cylinder working, and second I was not sure how the engine was going to behave, and I didn't want to take the risk that something happen in my way to the RDW station, missing the appointment that I had reserved a few months ago, so I took it on the trailer.

In a few days I will have my number plate and insurance, so I will be able to ride without problem if the weather allow me to do it.
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-on-trailer.jpg
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-on-trailer.jpg (102.24 KiB) Viewed 10604 times
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-&-Jeep-Wrangler.jpg
Moto-Rumi-Bol-D'Or-&-Jeep-Wrangler.jpg (104.74 KiB) Viewed 10604 times
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lasse
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:15 pm

Rich people has many pleasures - nice car, nice trailer...

Montesa
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Montesa » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:28 pm

In the US, particularly here in California, you can take a motorcycle in 10,000 pieces with no title of ownership down to the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and have it registered for road use and have it titled in your name in less than an hour, if you know what you are doing. You can also make almost any modification that you can think of to the bike and it needs no inspection whatsoever. All the state cares about are the numbers on the frame and motor. They run the numbers through a database to see if they are stolen, that's about it. The motor and frame don't even need to match. You can stick a Honda CB550 motor in a moped frame and register it without any real hassle, again, if you know what you are doing. California just wants your annual money, nothing more. Greed can sometimes be a good thing. :twisted:

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:11 pm

That is one thing always took my attention from the US. All those amazing machines legal for road use is just amazing, something impossible to do in Europe.
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lars
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:09 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Congratulations, Hugo, on another important milestone for your Bol D'Or!

On the inspection procedure: It is interesting to note the differences in in registration procedures in the various countries, even though standards are supposed to converge within EU. In Sweden we have two different types of inspections that you have to go through before you are finally allowed to use a vehicle on the road.

The first one is called a registration inspection and is only required once in the lifetime of a vehicle that is imported. It involves exactly the areas that you described: Serial numbers are checked, model year is verified for correctness, weights and dimensions are checked. A new Swedish license number is then issued. You pay for the inspection (about $250) and bring your vehicle home. Within one or two days you will receive your plates in the mail. But you still can not use your vehicle on the road. You need the other type of inspection too.

That second type is called a control inspection (or safety inspection) and it involves exactly what Lasse describes in Denmark: The vehicle must run and the inspector actually drives or rides your vehicle around the building, checking the brakes, lights, horn, etc. This type of inspection is less expensive, about $45, but is required every two years - for the rest of the life of the vehicle! If your vehicle passes this test, and if you have signed up for insurance, you are then finally allowed to drive your vehicle on the road. Phew!

Lars

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:26 am

Hi Lars,

Thanks, very happy that the bike now is legal to the road :D

I see every country has their own rules in Europe. Here we do not have to pass inspection once the bike has documentation, not classic bikes, and not modern bike either. That is really nice, I do not have to worry every few years to pass inspections to be able to use the bikes.

However in Spain they are extremely strict regarding the inspections for cars and motorcycles. Any little modification in the car or motorcycle has to be approved first by an engineer, too many troubles that make the peolle just to keep the cars/motorcycles as original as possible. The "Tuning scene" in Spain is almost gone (not a bad thing :lol: ) because the ITV (station where you pass the inspections) reject your car very easily.

Greets,
Hugo
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

RUMISTI
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 am

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by RUMISTI » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:39 am

Hello Hugo,
congratulations to the successful test of your 3rd RUMI.
A perfect and original restored vehicle, always has a good prerequisite for success.
Have fun with this beautiful motorcycle.
Rudolf

Rumi's
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 5:16 pm

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Rumi's » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:46 am

Hugo: Congratulations !!!
Beautiful restoration of its Rumi, and now with documents !!!
Enjoyment!!!
Regards,

Juan Nizio
from Argentina

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:32 am

Thanks Rudolf and Juan :D

Yesterday I received the documentation at home, so tomorrow I will order the number plate.
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

hugomez
Site Admin
Posts: 3607
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:55 am

Hi,

Last Sunday I took the bike out but the RIGHT cylinder didn't want to start as it did other times. I tried three times. After my first unsuccessful attempt where only the LEFT cylinder started, I stop the engine and took both sparkplugs off to clean them with break cleaner. Put them back and tried again. Same result, only LEFT cylinder started. Then I did the same again, took the sparkplugs out and clean them. In my third attempt both cylinders started but intermittently, the RIGHT cylinder was not stable, making difficult to ride the bike because of the lack of power. In that moment I decided to stop because I didn't want to overheat the LEFT cylinder.

A few members suggested me to remove the cylinders of the Bicarburatore and try them in the Bol D'Or, but honestly, I do not want to remove more parts of the Bicarburatore that took me three long years to restore. I already swapped the complete ignition system from one bike to the other.

What to do now?

Well, I do not think this is going to do any different, but I am going to try anyway. I will change the firing point to 1.5mm BTDC instead the 2.2mm that I had in all the previous tests. I know the correct firing moment should be 2.2 BTDC, but I do not loose anything trying to see how the RIGHT cylinder behave changing that.

If this do not change anything, I will just take the cylinders out as several of you are recommending long time ago, and see if I find something strange there, at the cylinders itself, the pistons, or the pistons rings.

Keep you update.
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Post Reply