Bol D'Or - New Project

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hugomez
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:00 pm

Hi Lasse,

I thought about the electronic ignition several times in the past, but at the moment I rather to get the bike working correctly with the original system, in the future I can always converted. After all with the original system correctly set up, the engine should perform quite well.

:D
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:22 pm

hugo if you go down the lines of electronic ignition,go with runtronic,same for any one else ,look it up on the internet and be amazed,alan who makes them will also make unit for it to run on motorcycle battery and charging system.it is what i shall be using.

Lasse
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:15 pm

Remember, the POWERDYNAMO ignition system can be run without a battery.
Its self generating, with powerful ceramic magnets.
Just a large capacitor (can also be bought at POWERDYNAMO) must be wired in, if you want to run without a battery...

Ian Skinner
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Ian Skinner » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:28 am

Quite right Lasse, batteries and little used motorcycles and scooters are a right pain!!

Ian

Lasse
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:25 pm

Nice to hear from you, Ian!
I hope your fantastic Triumph still is running well?
By the way, have you seen my update of my Royal Enfield "500 "Competition"?
(On "other motorcycles" on this site)

hugomez
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:45 pm

Hi all,

I am getting different information from several of you by private regarding how I should do the connection to test the BolD'or using a battery and jumping the LT coil.

Is this connection correct?

By the way, in this diagram we can see that the "Coil" has a positive and negative terminals, however in the coils I have on the BolD'or, there are no positive or negative indication on it, so I am connecting the wires accordingly, using the terminal without any distinction. Does make any sense this to you?, besides that, is the diagram correct?

Thank you very much in advance.
Wiring-connection.jpg
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hugomez
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:43 pm

By the way, what type of switch I have to buy?
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Lars
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:18 pm

Hi Hugo,

The diagram is correct. Plus or minus to the coil does not matter. In theory, you alter the polarity of the high voltage spark by changing those wire connections, but it makes absolutely no difference for this test.

Any switch will work, but higher current rating is always better. An automotive toggle switch intended for fog lights, etc. will do the job.

Should be a useful test.

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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:23 am

Hi Lars,

Thank you very much.
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:47 pm

wiring diagram correct,buy two toggle switches,wire both sides independently as per diagram,you can then check spark each side,also if runs okay you can s..witch of each side independantly to check how otherside runs.arthur

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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:58 pm

I will do Arthur. I already ordered two batteries, they are on the way. Also there is a shop close by that sell electronics, they have those toggle switches, so I will get two of them probably tomorrow.

Already the flywheel is out, the plate with the break points is also out, and the wires to the LT coils and condensers disconnected.

As soon as I have all components I will add the new wires and leave it ready.

Cheers.
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:53 am

hugo you can run off one battery as only power supply,just need live supply to each coil and one earth to engine.

UHJ200
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by UHJ200 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:39 pm

arthur lewthwaite wrote:hugo you can run off one battery as only power supply,just need live supply to each coil and one earth to engine.
True but the idea of using two batteries is to separate as far as possible the two ignition systems.

It is just possible that there might be some crossover as the existing flywheel system uses the non-firing points set as a path to ground for the ignition stator coil.

I'll admit that I am an old school metal basher and things electrical fall into the realm of "Black Arts" so I am open to correction but that is the way the wiring diagram looks to me.

arthur lewthwaite
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:12 pm

battery is electrical supply so wont be affected if a seperaye live wire is connected to each coil from the positive terminal,this leaves circuits independant to each other and only need of flywheel is lobe to open points.

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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:56 pm

Hi,

All new wires and connections are ready at the break points, condensers and coils, except the once from the toggle switches to the batteries, because I am still waiting to receive them by post.

I have keep the old wires in place, just unplugging them, but keeping close to put it back after the test if necessary. To avoid problems I have cover the tips with tape (just in case).

A bit upset because tightening one of the three screws of the rotor plate to the crankcase, I noticed how the thread of the screw, or the one at the crankcase worn :o Hopefully will be the one at the screw, that can be fix just replacing it to a new one, however if the thread that is gone is the one at the crankcase ........ AAhhggg_Fuc*^&*###&^%$##%^& :evil:

I hope for the test the rotor plate do not move from its position.
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:55 pm

hugo.use same wires from toggle switch to battery and clip on terminals with grips will do

Lasse
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:16 am

About the "worn" screw:
Use a brand new screw, and set it in "chemical metal" - without overtightening it.

After a day or two, the chemical metal should be fully cured - and you will be surprised over the holding power!
But still, avoid to use all your strenght, by the final tightening...

hugomez
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:13 am

Thanks Lasse and Arthur,

The batteries are here, so tomorrow (Saturday) I should be able to test the BolD'or at the parking. We will see.
Batteries-Varta-6V.jpg
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:36 pm

Hi again,

I have one little doubt. Before I started adding the new wires for the test, I had from each coil, one wire connected to "earth", that wires were attach from one terminal of the coil to the front section body of the scooter.

Right now the only wiring connections are exactly as the diagram in the previous page, so from the coils there is no wires that are connected to "earth".

Is that ok or would be better to also have that wires connected from the coils to the scooter body?

Please let me know.

Cheers,
Hugo
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Lars
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lars » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:09 pm

No, it is OK the way you have it now, Hugo. Just as it shows in the diagram.
You do not want or need any wire from the coils to the chassis ground in this setup.

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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:48 pm

Thank you Lars for the clarification :)
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:21 pm

Hi,

Just came back from the test. Same result, the RIGHT side cylinder doesn't start.
Batteries-connected-01.jpg
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Batteries-connected-02.jpg
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by hugomez » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:40 pm

If I am correct, this test reduced the posible electric problems to the coil, condenser and break point, is that correct?

In the past I swapped the coils several times, and replaced the break points as well a few times, so those two I will leave at the moment.

The part that bring more attention to me at this point is the condenser. Why?, because even if I replaced it for new once, I welded the wire to the condensers instead of using the thread with nuts. I had no nuts of that side when I mounted it months ago, and because the previous condenser had also the wire welded on it, I thought it would be ok to to weld the wires to the new condensers, so maybe I applied to much heat, breaking the condenser. Can that be the reason?

The condenser of both side were new, and it would be too much coincident that the old one for the RIGHT side was in bad condition, and once I replaced only the new one for the RIGHT side broke as well because of the heat, however maybe that is the case.

What you guys think?

At the moment I will not touch anything, I will wait to see what you think. Maybe you guys think is better to follow another route instead the condenser at this point.

Here the photo of a new condenser and the nuts to do not have to weld the wire again to it.
Condenser.jpg
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Lasse
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:07 pm

You can easily spoil a condenser by (too much) heat!!
I had every kind of trouble with the 4 cylinder NIMBUS - every time the condenser became really hot...
The motor stumpled & sputtered, with intermittent ignition.
The solution: I bought myself a modern ceramic condenser, guaranteed to "survive" even the hottest conditions.
This solution worked instantly!

So, I guess, you after many months, finally might have stumpled over the reason for the bad ignition in the rightside cylinder...
If you look into my "NIMBUS Saga" -I think there is descriptions & pictures of the actual ceramic condenser.

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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:15 pm

Hugo, I found it - the Danish/English company: thor-cap.com
They make & sell all kinds of durable ceramic condensers - at very reasonable price - typical in the range of 15-18 Euro

Lasse
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Re: Bol D'Or - New Project

Post by Lasse » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:16 pm

Sorry, here is the correct link: http://www.thorcap.com/Danish_index.htm

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