My "new" old Bicarburatore

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hugomez
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My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:42 pm

Since yesterday morning I am the happy owner of this beautiful Moto Rumi Bicarburatore.

The seller told me that nobody start the bike in the last 10 years but it was working correctly when it was stopped last time. I have check that all gears works properly, has compression and spark in both sides.

The tank has a lot of rust inside so I did not try to start it to do not damage anything, so get rid of the rust is going to be the priority now.

There is work to do and bit a bit everything will be done.

Today I brought the left muffler to friend that is welder because the little holder to hold it to the bike is broken, he is going to fix it.

Clean correctly the carbs will be the next.

I would say the spring of the center stand is not original, it fall easily all the time and also looks different that the one of the manual. However I am not using the center stand right now following the recommendation of Ian to protect the tubes with a packing to avoid then to bend and make the bike fall too.

The bike have been all these years in a dry place covered, so even if there are work to do, in general it is in good condition.

I already started asking questions since yesterday morning (actually even before to buy the bike) to a several members. Thanks Eddie, Rudolf, Ian and René for your advises and explanations.

Rudolf is going to send me the correct measures 1:1 by post to cut correctly the front fender that is not original.

Your advises are more than welcome to put this bike right again.

I feel very happy and excited with this new bike :D
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tony mooring
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by tony mooring » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:10 pm

Hi Hugo, Very nice!! I think you will find the centre stand bracket has been fitted the wrong way round. The exhaust clamps should fit where the pipes enter the silencers. Therefore you will need no packing. It is the same as on my supersport.

Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:22 am

Congratulations, Hugo!
Certainly a very well kept "Bicarburatore" - looking very original and "unbodged"...


Is it correct, it have the socalled "long distance" gastank?
About the tank: If it was my tank, I would just CLEAN it very carefully inside - and then leave it cleaned, and NOT use one of the "tank sealing kits" on the market.
You never know what will be added to gasolene in the future - so you might possibly end up with a mess inside your tank.
A clean iron metal tank will stay clean for decades, because of the oil in the fuel!
(its another story with four strokes, because their gas tanks might rust, because of pure gasolene, mixed with small amounts of "condensation" water)

As I see it, the only "snag" you could run into, with a bike left standing for 10 years time, might be partially "dry" seals inside the motor.
Hopefully not - but if you are unlucky, you will soon recognize oil seepage from the magneto side, and/or "oil-drinking" from the gearbox, into the combustion system...
Hopefully not!

But Hugo, we need to hear more about this beautifull motorcycle!
Where did you find it?
Whats the story?
How had it been used - and, and...

Also, if you plan to go to Italy, and drive in one of the great oldtimer races - please let me hear.
Because I have plans, and René have plans, - so a ""RUMI Forum Team" of 3 bikes would be major fun, I guess.

Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:33 am

Hello again, Hugo.
It seems to me, the drive cable to the speedometer is missing?

If correct, I guess I have one - maybe.
Otherwise - you can get a correct one from the UK based "Venhill" engineering company (where I got all my cables for the "Corsa" Junior)

pess32
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by pess32 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:02 am

Hi Hugo,

Very nice this bike !!!!

I use "restom kit" from my tanks, and i can tell you this is a very good quality !! These products are "magic" and there are esay to use !!!

All my scooters (6) have this treatment in the tank !! The first has 10 years ago !!!

hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:55 am

tony mooring wrote:Hi Hugo, Very nice!! I think you will find the centre stand bracket has been fitted the wrong way round. The exhaust clamps should fit where the pipes enter the silencers. Therefore you will need no packing. It is the same as on my supersport.
Hi Tony,

I didn't realized that the brackets on the right side has been fitted the wrong way round. Now comparing with the image of the manual I can see the round part must be pointing down, thanks.

However I think this won't be enough to keep all straight as the the fourth photo I show here as example that Rudolf sent to me by email this morning. I know it is a different model of stand, but this show me how the tubes and stand should looks correctly mounted. Thanks Rudolf!!

I think the stand must be bend somewhere, probably in the top area where is attached to the frame. I am not sure of this, I will remove it this evening and have a look if there is any signal of bending around.

I must say that when the bike is on the stand it is not straight, it is leaning to the left side.

Tony, if you have the exact same model of stand, would you mind send me a photo to be able to see how exactly it must fit on the bike?
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hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:35 pm

Hi Lasse,

Certainly the gas tank is HUGE.
Thanks for your recommendations, still I am looking what I am going to do with it. Probably I will use "Tank cure" because I am worry about one signal of rusty spot that (still) didn't arrive to the surface but I think if I do not treat it eventually it will arrive, so I hope the sealing will solved the problem.

I know the problems because the ethanol many people is having now with their gas tank fixed years ago, hopefully the product that there are now in the market are ready for it, of course we do not know what changes can apply in the petrol composition in the future. Anyway, right now I have the bike in the 6th floor in my flat (yes, I have a very big lift) and I do not want my girlfriend to put me out of my own place because the smell of the petrol and the sealing during the fixing process, so I will try to find a professional to do this job and ask what they think is best to do on this tank once they see it.

Also thanks Pess32 for your recommendation of the Restom kit ;)

About your questions. I found the bike in Belgium, in a small village in the very border with The Netherlands. The owner told me that he has the bike 10 years ago, he never used and now want to sell it because is making a new house in his property (I saw the house in construction) and need some cash.

What I could see is that the seller is in the business of the antique furniture.

I try to get more information about the bike but I could not get it, even asking a few times the only I got was that.

The bike has Argentinian serial numbers, in the frame and engine. Who know the real story of the bike, still I'm trying to find out something else asking to our fellows in Argentina.

Yes, the speedometer cable is missing, good eye. Yesterday I check the housing drive and if I'm right I think there were something written in Spanish, so maybe the original was broken and a previous owner installed one from another bike. Today I will check to see the brand and let you know. If the extra cable that you have works I may be interested, thank you very much. First I have to check because I have also one brand new in Spain that I eventually never installed in the Formichino and who knows, maybe works on it.

I will keep in consideration the "Rumi Forum Team" idea, sound nice.

Thank you,
Hugo
My little Formichino here: http://www.formichino.com/pictures1.html

Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:56 pm

Hey Hugo - because you have all the trouble running this site - I will donate all my cables and speedo drives to you.
Then you can evaluate - and maybe "construct" something from those mixed parts, that will make your speedometer run again.
(Huh, thereby making the "originality freaks" peck on you!)

Once more - congratulations to you!,
Lasse.

hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:02 pm

Lasse wrote:Hey Hugo - because you have all the trouble running this site - I will donate all my cables and speedo drives to you.
Then you can evaluate - and maybe "construct" something from those mixed parts, that will make your speedometer run again.
(Huh, thereby making the "originality freaks" peck on you!)

Once more - congratulations to you!,
Lasse.
I really appreciate your generosity (once again) Lasse, this is not the first time you offer me something in that way, thanks!!!
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opsimoto
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by opsimoto » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:13 pm

Hi Hugo,
Congratulations. It was a good buy.
Belgium is a good place to find Rumi's ;-)
So, wish you a lot of fun with your new bike.
Best regards
René

If you need something, I go to Reggio Emilia end of March and can lock if I can find

formichino
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by formichino » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:23 pm

compliment's :mrgreen:

hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:23 pm

Thanks René and Formichino for your compliments :)

I am trying to discover actually of the bike is one of the Argentinian or is an European one. For sure is not Italian because the serial number of the frame and engine are not as the Italian bikes.

The question is ......... Is possible that Moto Rumi imported "Bicarburatore" to Belgium or other parts of Europe with the typical sequences of numbers that were used in Argentina?

I asked to a Argentinian member of the forum and he told me that he believe that this bike is not Argentinian because the front and rear fenders. About the front one I think is just not original, but the rear one???, can any of you tell me if the rear one looks like the Italian fenders?

The engine number is like this R125 XXX and the frame number are just 5 numbers (20XXX)

If any of you have a data base with the serials of Bicarburatore, I would really appreciate if you can let me know to be able to find out the origin of this bike.

Thank you very much in advance
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Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:56 pm

Hugo, I bought this "Bicarburatore" 4 years ago, from Sweden.
I know its history, its a direct import from Bergamo to Stockholm, so its definitely a real Italian bike.

Therefore, you might compare your "Bicarburatore" to mine - fenderwise.
I am not totally sure, your front fender, for example, is not original?
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hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:01 pm

Hi Lasse,

Thanks for posting your photos. I am getting a lot information from several places and I forgot that both tires of the bike + the speedometer gear housing are from South America, so this for me is the definitive clue that this bike have been there and is one of the Argentinians or Uruguagian. The tires say INDUSTRIA URUGUAYA
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Later I will post the photo of the speedo gear housing.

Thanks
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:14 pm

1 - It says INDUSTRIA V.S ARGENTINA

2 - AAAAAAAaaaahhhhhhhgg, there is a hole!!!!!! :shock:
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Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Calm down - its just a "slid" used for the (missing/broken?) "peg" whos turning with the wheel revolutions, and transmitting power via the worm drive and the cable, leading to the speedo.

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Lasse wrote:Calm down - its just a "slid" used for the (missing/broken?) "peg" whos turning with the wheel revolutions, and transmitting power via the worm drive and the cable, leading to the speedo.
Lasse, should I forget about the hole on the hub or I must fix it?, it is not nice to have this little hole there.



About the stand, this is what I got. It is completely bended as you can see in the photos, both parts, the top to the frame and the bottom to the floor.
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opsimoto
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by opsimoto » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:17 pm

Hello again,
For your info
I have the papers from a "belgian" bicarburatore immatriculated in Belgium the 12.10.1956 and the frame number is 11560.
Best regards
René

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:36 pm

opsimoto wrote:Hello again,
For your info
I have the papers from a "belgian" bicarburatore immatriculated in Belgium the 12.10.1956 and the frame number is 11560.
Best regards
René
Hi René, and is the engine number 2cXX 11111, or 2XX11111 or R125 xxxx?

Thanks for the info.
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opsimoto
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by opsimoto » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:35 pm

I don't know, I have just the papers, not the bike :-(

hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Gosta recommended me to have a look to the page 70 of the Crippa book to see 3 photos of 2 Bicarburatore. Looking at that photos I have realized of the different of the rear section of my bike between the one of Lasse and between the paint of the manual.

This "perhaps" can help to identify the year of my bike.
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If you look the page 70 of Crippa's book, you will see that the first and second photo (same bike) has the same rear section part than mine, but the rear fender is different.

Because the angle of the third photo (the white bicarburatore) seem that my rear fender is more similar to this one.

Also the shocks of the first and second photos are different than mine and the muffler are installed higher that mine. On the third photo the muffler are mounted as mine and also the stand is the same, but the rear section part of the frame of this third bicarburatore seem to be different than mine and the same than Lasse's bike.

What do you think guys?

Anyway, I will focus to make it run and in the way if is possible find out the origin, year, etc.

:D
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Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:54 pm

The centerstands of the RUMI motorcycles are at best, "flimsy"...
(thats why I did myself a sturdy HONDA centerstand, on my "Bicarburatore")
But if you go for strict originality, you need to repair the one you have!

Its very easy to straighten it, its made of fairly "soft" metal - but if you, after straightening it, you want to retain its shape, I would recommend you to weld some "extra" strenghtening plates on it, to make it much more rigid!
And also see to, your exhausts pipes are sitting firmly in place - and then avoid sitting on the stationary bike.

Personally, I like the possibility to sit on the bike, when its parked on its centerstand.
In my instance (I might be too heavy...) the original "gave up life" and buckled - so I had to do a more substantial one - for my type of use.
Had worked OK ever since!

And again, about the tiny "slit" in the side of your brake drum.
Leave it there, its not dangerous, its ment to be there - for the speedometer drive!

About the rear suspension "turrets" - I have never seen them like this.
The "split" on them seems to be the smart way in dismantling & rebuilding the rear springs, because they can be real "swines" to install if you dont have the correct tools.
I am sure about, that more knowledgeable and experienced RUMI people than me, will come up with an explanation of WHY the rear end looks like this?

By the way, Hugo - is the "fork" holding the complete spring cluster welded - maybe after an accident?
On the photo, it looks like a repair has been done.

UHJ200
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by UHJ200 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:15 am

Rust killer – steel tanks and anything else steel for that matter.

What you need:

Orthpohosphoric Acid, Tannic Acid and Acetone; all readily available chemicals.

What to do:

(1) Make up a 15% Phosphoric solution with water, (preferably nice ‘an pure!).
(2) Dissolve in acetone a sufficient quantity of Tannic Acid to make 5% addition to the above-diluted Phosphoric Acid.

The problem with Tannic Acid is that it is immiscible with water, it will however dissolve in Acetone and Acetone is miscible with water. Only sufficient Acetone is required to dissolve the Tannic Acid, its only function is to act as a carrier to get the Tannic Acid into the water.

The chemistry of this “devils brew” works thus, the phosphoric acid converts the iron oxide into ferric phosphate, it has no significant reaction on sound steel. The ferric phosphate forms an adherent protective coating on the steel (it can however be mechanically removed by wire brushing, etc.). Quite usefully the reaction causes changes in the physical size in the rusted areas and that tends to loosen the converted material thus making it easier to remove. The problem with any rusted surface is the rust pits; they are in effect a battery or at least an electrochemical process, anodes, cathodes, wandering electrons ‘an all that jazz. The tannic acid, when the surface is dried out, forms an insulating layer that being insoluble keeps water at bay and thus retards further rusting.

For cleaning out a tank the process would be to pour in a quantity of the “brew”, swill around, leave for a while, empty out and dry. Pour in your choice of abrading material, the type of ceramic chips used for “rumbling” would be ideal, agitate, empty, rinse and repeat until all loose matter is gone, do one more swill with the “brew” and dry, the tank should be "good to go".

This process will not seal up any ‘extra to requirements’ holes of course, indeed it might expose some but then if the tank is that weak it’s just as well to expose them so that they can be repaired properly. The surface so prepared should make a good foundation for a protection coat if so desired.

Lasse
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Lasse » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:21 am

Hello again Hugo!
I attach a picture of my "Bicarburatore" (not the best of pictures)...

Because, here you can se that:
1. Holes in the front brake, is not dangerous (compared to your VERY small hole) I had driven thousands of kilometres with those holes.
2. The homemade centerstand, made up of a strenghtened original RUMI one, combined with a broader, stronger HONDA sub-part.

Remark, I do nNOT use the exhausts pipes as support for the centerstand!
The strenght i need to have, came from the fact that i used the underside of the gearbox as "fulcrum" point, in order to avoid any tendencies for the mounting bracket to bend or distort!
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Ian Skinner
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Ian Skinner » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:12 am

Hugo
A couple of side shots of my SSBC when I acquired it, illustrating views of the centre stand in a similar state to yours and those awful handlebars and dangerous upward levers. (Ifixed the centre stand as we discussed)

The third shot shows a few mods I have made in keeping with the period, but showing 'Vincent' bars and 'Ducati' levers, much better and comfortable as well!!

Ian
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hugomez
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:31 pm

UHJ200, thanks for this explanation. Yesterday talking with a friend specialized in vintage Honda, offered me to do by myself the process to fix the tank in his place. Then I won't have the problem with the strong smell at home. Also I would have him looking if what I'm doing is correct or not (he made it several times in these years) and the best will be the satisfaction I will have once it is done :D I will buy the full kit "Tank cure" for it.

Lasse, I won't worry anymore for this little hole, thanks. About the stand. I think at this point I will show my bended stand to the guy that is welding the exhaust, he work with metal all the time, lets see what he said, however I am also looking other options. I know for the comments of a few of you that the design of this specific stand is really bad, but would be great if I can fix it and install correctly in the bike. Anyway as I said I am also looking another alternatives.

About the rear suspension, have a look to Crippa's book, page 70, there you can see it, I could not see it anywhere else.

I have also realized that seem that the rear "folk" holding is welded looking at the photo. I will have a closer look in the reality, perhaps you are right and it has an accident, who knows, in all these years anything could happen I guess.

Ian, thanks for these photos, (what a beautiful bike by the way!!!). Could you tell me how the spring is installed in your center stand? I afraid that I do not have the original 10443 131 part that if I am right mount the sprint through it. (See image below)

Also in the future I will consider the issue with the handlebar. I see the lever are too high, in a very uncomfortable position for the hands. However I will try it once I get the bike running. If I manage to ride it well I will probably keep it original, we will see.

Thank you all
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