My "new" old Bicarburatore

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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:50 pm

Having looked at the cylinders from Hugo, who ever makes them, has made a very poor job of the porting.
If you look at the gasket on the inlet in the photo when Hugo posted about the stud removal, you will see from the gasket the size the port should have been, half this area is closed of by the aluminium casting. This also applies to the liner and transfer ports. The exhaust is reasonable.
I am going to remove liners and rework the porting in the casting, and liner to the right sizes. Would say this has a very detrimental effect on the power output of the engine as they are at present.
If any one else has these cylinders i would check them out. I will try to get my son to take a picture of this against an original 254 cylinder that i have to show how it should be. I have removed the liner from my 254 cylinder to take measurements for the patterns i am making to make new cylinders for my 4 cylinder project.
I will be fitting new liners when i have them made.
I will also be able to make some that are bored and nickosealed to see what works best.

arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:56 pm

Good evening UHJ200, Regards Arthur.

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:53 pm

Hi Arthur,

Yes, we have talk several times in the past along this HUGE threat about those bad replica cylinders. The good thing is that they work and have been good enough for testing the bike riding around the neighbourhood. The bike had power when using them, but certainly the finishing doesn't look nice.

Once I assemble the engine again I will do it with a nice pair of iron "Z" cylinders.

Looking forward to get the call from the polishing guy to pick up the halves and start the process :)
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:52 pm

One more step done.

The brand new crankshaft and the old clutch basket already assembled on it.

(Thanks Edoardo for buying it for me in Italy. Rudolf and Ian for the explanations about how to do this step. Ian, your Skype call have been as always very nice) ;)
Moto-Rumi-Crankshaft-new-01.jpg
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:16 pm

Another step.

The set of new clutch discs that I got long time ago in Argentina thanks Juan Nizio is already at the basket.

Probably the old discs were fine to use, but now that I am replacing so many parts, and having this clutch discs set in the spare parts box, I decided also replace them.

More soon
Moto-Rumi-new-Clutch-discs-assembling.jpg
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:42 am

Hi,

By private message I got a request of explanation about how I managed to replace the clutch discs without the original Rumi tool.

Well, Rudolf told me how I could do it. Just using two F-style clamp similar as the one at the photo.

In my case, the F-style clamps I have, has the surfaces a bit too big for me to be able to remove the large circlip that hold the clutch discs and metal discs at the basket, however I put a nut between each F-style clamp and the metal discs, so I got space to remove the circlip without problem. In your case you can use something different instead that nut, or better two smaller F-style clamp as the once I have use.

I hope this help. If anybody have a better way please let us know :)
F-Style-Clamp-to-remove-Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs.jpg
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Ian Skinner
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Ian Skinner » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:15 pm

Tool used by Rumi agents.

Ian
Open Ready to Engage Clutch.jpg
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Closed Clutch Compressed.jpg
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RUMISTI
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by RUMISTI » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:51 pm

Hi Ian, that's perfect, unfortunately I do not have this tool.
Rudolf
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Ian Skinner
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Ian Skinner » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:26 pm

Hi Rudolph, I had no idea that you were a dentist!! Just joking.

Ian

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:06 am

Nice collection of Rumi tools ;)

Ian, yours is the special one to remove 2 wisdom tooth at the same time :lol: :lol: :lol:
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:16 am

I don't know but is the tool on the right with the two handles to compress rest suspension units o tourism's and bicarb sports models.

tony mooring
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by tony mooring » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:00 pm

Yes!!

arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:39 pm

Thanks for that Tony. Never seen one before, throne rumi never worked on with this suspension i did the same as i did the sunbeam s7 with nuts and long bolts bit of a game.

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:32 pm

Another step up, the center stand.

In my last trip to Italy with Rudolf, I found this nice Moto Rumi center stand and I bought it. As you can notice, it is a different model of the one I had on the bike previously. This one do not have to have the exhaust pipes crossing through it, so under my point of view it looks much nicer on the bike than the other model, and not only that, also it make much easier once I work on the engine in case I have to take it out of the frame (in my case many times) :lol:

The frame of my bike bring the "ears" to get this center stand fit on it, so both models of center stands are available for this frame.

Very happy with it.
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:14 pm

The happiness last very little, I just noticed that the center stand will hit the silencers. I will have to bent the legs enough to get them wider.

The inside distance between legs of the previous center stand is 250mm, and the distance of the new one is 227mm. So at least I have to get 23mm wider the new one.
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Hi,

I have a doubt sometime ago and always forgot to ask.

In the few previous times I closed the engine, I have always applied Loctite for bearing and sealing compound on this way:
Guide-for-liquid-gasket-application-Moto-Rumi-halves.jpg
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When I had to open the engine again, always have been a bit of nightmare to be able to remove the washers/rings that where completely stuck at the areas below:
Doubt-applying-gasket-compount-at-slot.jpg
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I know that using a non hardening compound this would not happen, making it easy to separate, however in case it is necessary to use a compound that get hard, it is completely necessary to apply sealing compound at the slots I mark (yellow arrows) at the photo above?

After all, oil pass through the middle of the washers/rings to lubricate the bearings, so what is the point to get it that tight? Also, they do not rotate while the engine is rotating.

Would be ok not applying anything there?


Here the rings I am talking about:
Ring-at-Moto-Rumi-gears-a.jpg
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Please let me know.

Thanks
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:42 pm

Hugo, use it as you show only under seal units not bearings. Use obviously also on flat joint surfaces. Use the wellseal, this is a proper engine sealing compound, don't use silicon sealant.

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:02 pm

arthur lewthwaite wrote:Hugo, use it as you show only under seal units not bearings. Use obviously also on flat joint surfaces. Use the wellseal, this is a proper engine sealing compound, don't use silicon sealant.
Hi Arthur, thanks for your reply. Still I have not clear my doubt.
I know that at the bearings I do not have to use sealing compound, instead must use Loctite 641 special for bearings.
My doubt is about in the "hypothetical case" that somebody want to use a hardening compound, it is ok not to apply it in the areas I mark with yellow arrows because of the reasons I mentioned before?
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Ian Skinner
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Ian Skinner » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:33 pm

I have found that it is most important that all the mating surfaces of the seal holders to the crankcase are smeared with sealant, that includes the location lips as well. I agree with Arthur, avoid all silicon sealants like the plague, use a non setting viz. Wellseal, Hylomar or Hermatite Golden (I gave you some, remember)

Ian

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:58 pm

Ian Skinner wrote:I have found that it is most important that all the mating surfaces of the seal holders to the crankcase are smeared with sealant, that includes the location lips as well. I agree with Arthur, avoid all silicon sealants like the plague, use a non setting viz. Wellseal, Hylomar or Hermatite Golden (I gave you some, remember)

Ian
Hola Ian, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have here the Hylomar and Hermatite Golden from you, and also Arthur sent me with the crankcase a tube of Wellseal, all of them non hardening sealants that would make much easier to separate the halves in the future.

The thing is that when I used hardening once (as Loctite 574 Multi gasket) those two rings where completely stuck, so very difficult to remove the top from the bottom crankcase half. The halves where separated, except for the rings, so there where a movement (play) I could do, but until I managed to eventually take it out ...... uuufff.

I will use non hardening sealant this time.

;)
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arthur lewthwaite
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by arthur lewthwaite » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:46 pm

Hugo Wellseal does not set hard, so taking things apart is not a problem. I have been in the vehicle and engineering trades for 60 years and rebuilt many engines and gearboxes over that time, and will always use Wellseal first even before Hylomar, etc. Wellseal really is a first class product. Use it sparingly do not plaster it on, just thin even coatings.

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by Ian Skinner » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Sorry Hugo, I got a bit confused about the rings and their grooves that you were talking about. No, these are the gear shaft location control rings and do NOT require any sealant. The bearings require locking fluid only. However, a little sealant is required in the end plug location slot of the selector drum.

Ian

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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:03 pm

arthur lewthwaite wrote:Hugo Wellseal does not set hard, so taking things apart is not a problem. I have been in the vehicle and engineering trades for 60 years and rebuilt many engines and gearboxes over that time, and will always use Wellseal first even before Hylomar, etc. Wellseal really is a first class product. Use it sparingly do not plaster it on, just thin even coatings.
Hi Arthur,

I understand, very thin layer, not plaster it. Thank you Arthur, I will do in that way ;)

Ian Skinner wrote:Sorry Hugo, I got a bit confused about the rings and their grooves that you were talking about. No, these are the gear shaft location control rings and do NOT require any sealant. The bearings require locking fluid only. However, a little sealant is required in the end plug location slot of the selector drum.
Ian
Ian, I should put the photos of the gear shaft location control rings earlier, but good that after I edited the post adding the photos, you saw them and understood what I wanted to say. I know sometimes is not easy to understand what I want to say because I put the names I want to the parts of the bike :lol:

Now I guess you can imaging how difficult was to remove those rings of the slots when they where completely stuck, and I could not understand why to apply the hardening sealant there.

Thanks Ian for the clarification :D
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:17 pm

This have to be the final one.

At the moment doing some little adjustment to several parts, but almost ready for assembling.

Tomorrow if I have time I will make very carefully the small grooves at the crankshaft seals to fit with the pins at the seal carriers of the lower crankcase half. (These brand new seals do not bring the grooves)

Because of my work I won't be able to do much more the rest of the week, but next week I will be able to continue.
Preparing-for-assembling---Moto-Rumi-engine.jpg
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:39 pm

Hi,

The operating room was ready :lol: and the surgery made.

Looking the new grooves at eye vision they seem to be ok, but taking the photo with the camera zoom, they as you can see are not smooth and clean cut, but I can't do it better.

I used the dremel and a small file by hand at the end, but the position was not always the ideal.

Anyway, do you think if that grooves are deep and big enough?

I have check them and "seem" to hold the seals properly.
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Re: My "new" old Bicarburatore

Post by hugomez » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:38 pm

Hi,

I just noticed that I have this "tube" two times, at the crankcase, and at the "selector arm" (I just invented that name)

Where do you think is better to keep it?
Where of the two places is the usual location of this tube to be "hold"?
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