Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

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tony mooring
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by tony mooring » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:38 am

Well I am that old, I can remember when Long John Silver had two legs and an egg on his shoulder.
I must disagree with you again Lasse regarding exhaust noise.Most of the noise that emanates from a Rumi "on full song" comes from the induction ROAR through the carb or carbs.
And I would remind you that Hugo already has a Rumi, HENCE THE REASON for this magnificent forum.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:46 am

tony mooring wrote:Hugo, I've been thinking!!!! If it is a ticking/buzzing sound which rises and falls with the engine revs, it could possibly be the cam chain adjuster slipper that is breaking up.Not a very difficult job to replace the cam chain tensioner but you will have to dismantle the cylinder head possibly. If it is that I suggest you also replace the cam chain.
Try and get a HAYNES manual,maybe on ebay, for your bike and things will be explained in there.
Hi Tony,

I have the Workshop manual of my bike that explain how to replace it. Before to do this I would try to get rid of the noise adjusting valves, replacing the coil, and checking all electronic possibilities. If I see that the noise appear, then I would go to replace the tensioner. (It's not that your suggestion is not good, not at all, is because is the most complicated one for me, remember that I'm alone doing all this and my experience is still very little, but if I have to do it, I will do)

Cheers and I'll keep update with more news (still the coil didn't arrive :x )
CB100-noise.jpg
CB100-noise.jpg (57.01 KiB) Viewed 14506 times
Cam-chain-tensioner.jpg
Cam-chain-tensioner.jpg (166.09 KiB) Viewed 14506 times
;)
OO
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:56 am

Yesterday I had time to replace the coil, the result, the clicking still appear sometimes.

On my way to work I've stop in a repair shop and I got one guy hear the engine, unfortunately in this moment the clicking was very weak. I told him that sometimes this clicking is very loud, and he said that this is the normal noise from the valves and I should not worry about.

Maybe I'm too picky, but he can't tell me that this is normal.

I'll adjust the valves and see what happen.

:)
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UHJ200
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:17 pm

One of the problems with OHC engines is that the valve gear is at the top! If there has been poor maintenance in the past and oil levels have been allowed to get low then good ‘ol gravity becomes the enemy, what oil there is drains to the bottom when the engine is stopped and because there isn’t much it takes the pump longer than it should to get it to the top particularly if the oil level is very low and the pump is sucking an emulsion of air/oil rather than ‘solid’ oil. The sad result is that some of the most highly loaded sliding contact components in the engine are starved of oil and can suffer excessive wear. If this has happened then the cam profiles can become compromised enough to produce strange noises.

One way to try to locate such noises is to take a, (preferably clean!), screwdriver of a convenient size, place the blade on the suspect area(s) of the running engine and the handle to the bone just in front of your ear where your jawbone hinges. Used thus the screwdriver forms a poor man’s stethoscope, special stethoscopes for just this purpose may still be made, I have one somewhere, but the screwdriver trick works quite well enough.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:38 pm

Thanks UHJ200 for the trick.

My good friend Eddie Jackson told me this trick as well a few days ago. Yesterday after replacing the coil I started the engine but the clicking was not there, anyway I took a flat screwdriver and I located the tip in several parts of the engine and the other end on my ear just to see what happened, WOW is very impressive how good I could hear and feel the vibrations and noises.

Since yesterday the few times that the clicking noise appeared was driving the bike but when I stop the noise disappeared. Sometime the noise is still there when I stop, so I will be ready with my screwdriver to try to localize exact source.

;)
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UHJ200
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:50 pm

"and when I stopped it was gone. I'll be there ready with my screwdriver."

There has just GOT to be a cartoon in there somewhere!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:52 pm

:lol:
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tony mooring
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by tony mooring » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:23 pm

Are you using a "Flat" or "Philips" or Hugo's screwdriver????
Don't forget to put the handle end to your ear!
Have you a licence for your screwdriver? I understand that all drivers should have a licence especially if you are taking it on the road. Ha!Ha! :lol: :lol:

UHJ200
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:36 pm

I've got some spare nut spinners . . . :twisted:

That's if you want to make your eyes water! :shock: :o :lol:

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:48 pm

A small point for anyone else that wants to try the screwdriver dodge; don’t put the screwdriver directly to your ear, instead put it on the bony part of your face just in front of your ear, the sound transmission will be much better. I think it might be something to do with ears being designed for air vibrations but whatever the reason with the ear clear of screwdriver you can stick a finger in it to further deaden out other noises.

And Hugo, don’t ever buy yourself a Vincent ‘cos one of them will really drive you nuts, love ‘em as I do and I’ve got three, I have to admit they all sound like a bucket of bolts with a wheel at each end!

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:15 am

Yesterday I did my first valves adjustment trying to get rid of this clicking noise.

I was ready with my manual, tools, enthusiasm and knowledge I could get checking videos and websites online.

After finish it I tested the bike and the result was that the engine sound was even worse than before. :oops: The clicking noise I could not hear anymore because the valves noise was very strong.

This morning I woke up early willing to fix it adjusting the valves correctly.

This time I did it well, I adjusted correctly with the right gauge and this time I started the engine before to close everything. The sound was great. I finished mounting the rest of the bike and I tested it. The result is that the engine sound very well and the bike run very nicely.

After a few kilometers I could feel a very very very smooth clicking, but so smooth that I really think I have not to worry about, I guess I can hear this because my obsession to get rid of the strong noise, but this smooth one I really think is normal.

So finally this annoying clicking noise is gone!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to all for your advises.

:D
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:34 pm

I must recognize very sad that the noise didn't go, it is still there.

The first day I tried the bike after adjust the valves I had the feeling that it was gone, but after ride the bike in the highway a few days later the sound was appearing again. Perhaps never dissapeared and was just an illusion.

I have 2 option, or I forget about it and I enjoy the bike, or I keep trying to get rid of it. At the moment I'm going to choose the first option because even with the noise the bike run very well, but I hope be able one day to find out what is the source of it and removed.

:oops:
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Lasse
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by Lasse » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:01 am

Hugomez - I think you have but two options:
1. Work your way "backwards" i.e. trying to "fix"/find the most obvius solutions first - going from object to object (mechanical/electrical objects) - untill you sudenly have got rid of the noice...

2. Find a (friendly) HONDA mechanic, and let him listen to the noise.
alternatively, find a person in Holland, having the same bike as you have - & consult him.

You know, motorcycles can be tremendous fun - also create enormous frustrations!
What would you say, if i told you, that my RUMI, finally running extremely well, 100% to my satisfaction - broke the crank-axle 3 days ago?
Yes, its true - I have just ordered a brand new one from Italy - so my winters project will be taking the motor apart for the N.th time...
Funny.

Lasse.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Hi Lasse, thanks for your reply.

The option one was the one I chose, I was trying to find the source of the noise and I replace several parts on the way, but is obvious that my inexperience didn't let me to do it right. Nevertheless I'm learning many ways to don't get rid of the noise, hehehehe. Now seriously, I'm learning a lot since I put my hands over this bike the first time less than one year ago.

The option two would be good, I met one guy once that has the same bike, ok, is has not the same bike because he is restoring it, so he has his garage full of parts that together would make a bike like mine :)
He lives not very close, around 120km from my house, but perhaps one of this days I wake up early in Saturday morning and I do him a visit.

Right now I thing the next step would be (as Tony recommend me), replace the cam chain tensioner and also the cam chain. I promise myself to do everything to this bike on my own, so in case the cam chain tensioner is the source of the problem I'll wait a bit, maybe in winter when here is freezing I take the courage to do it.

Fortunately the bike run very well at this moment, so I guess this can wait a bit.

Lasse, certainly I'm having a lot of fun working on the bike, I did minor things, nothing really complicated, but I'm really enjoying, no doubt of that.

I'm sorry for you crank-axle, but you know well how to fix it, I'm sure.

Cheers,

;)
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tony mooring
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by tony mooring » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:27 pm

Hello Hugo, Don't forget,if you decide to change the timing chain,to study the manual first. You must "Fix" the sprockets so they don't move when you remove the chain. Otherwise you will loose your valve timing which can then cause SERIOUS problems.
Tony.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:28 pm

Thanks Tony for the advise, I'll keep in mind.

Anyway before to start I will study step by step what I have to do, and I will post here to be sure that I don't miss any important step.

Cheers,

;)
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Lasse
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by Lasse » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:04 am

What became of the "very annoying & buzzing Honda sound"?

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:09 am

Hi Lasse, thanks to ask.

The noise still came and go every time I ride the bike. I suspect that Tony is right and may be the cam chain tensioner, I adjusted it by the external adjuster a few time to try to solve the noise with no success.

If I have to open the engine for any other reason, then I will take the opportunity to replace the can chain and also the tensioner, but if I don't have the open the engine I will wait. As long as the noise don't increase and the performance of the bike keep like now, I won't open it just for the noise, however if the noise increase then I would take decisions to open and replace parts.

Thanks Lasse,

;)
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by Lasse » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:05 pm

Hugomez - in my long & colourfull "motorcycle career" I NEVER experienced, that a mechanical noise went away by itself...
So, if you dont care & just "wait and see" - I guess that "the noise" will make itself known - sooner or later - in a most expensive way!
My best advise: Visit a good "Honda" motorcycle garage - the folks there will probably be able to identfy the noise in a matter of minutes.
Then you can have it tended to - or buy the appropriate spareparts - to make the repair yourself.

Dont just "do nothing" - because then you will never have "pease of mind" - but always drive around, listening, and fearing something to break.
Its no fun - to walk home - dragging a "dead" bike!


Best Regards,
Lasse.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:01 pm

Hmm! Horskjaer has beaten me to it! Visitors is my excuse – “a friend NOT in need is a friend indeed” . . . :twisted:

You may get away with ignoring strange noises but, if for example, the chain was to let go and was then to wrap itself around one of the sprockets you would, in all likelihood, be saying “Ta! Ta!” to some of your castings. And good luck trying to repair weld that stuff, I know ‘cos I’ve had occasion to TIG the stuff in the past, I think it's made from recycled woks, second hand WWII Zero fighter parts with the odd bit of Mount Fuji thrown in for good measure!

One of the problems with such a drive train is that it is of necessity a 2:1 ratio and therefore there can be no hunting tooth to distribute wear. As a result the point of greatest load will always fall on the same links in the chain and sooner or later the inevitable will happen.

'Fink yerself lucky you don't own a Vincent you'd be a nervous wreck by now! :lol:

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:02 am

Hi Lasse and David,

Lasse, I totally understand when you say that I will never have peace of mind, this is happening right now, I try not to think about the noise always when it appeared but to be honest I can't. I try to convince myself that this is something not really important and is just produce because the bike is 40 years old and is normal (as several people in a Spanish classic Honda forum told me before), but even if this little clicking noise is normal, bothers me.

I already did what you suggest about visit a garage and ask if they recognize the noise. Actually I when to see 2 different garage and I just ask the guys please to came out one moment to hear the engine. In both cases they told me that it was a normal valves noise and I should not worry about.

Because both mechanics told me the same, I learned how to adjust the valves and I did 2 times, first time I did wrong and I could really hear the valves noise strongly, the second time (next day) I did right and the engine sound great, except when suddenly this clicking/buzzing sound appear.

I always can pass again to another garage and ask to another person to hear the engine and see if it point to another direction of the source of the noise, but reading what Tony said previously in this topic I would say the source is the cam-chain tensioner.

Everybody that listened the noise (also friends with classic bikes) tell me that is nothing (against my thinking that of course must be something), but everybody say that I should not worry about.

I won't give up, I'm just going to try to don't get obsessive with this noise and enjoy the bike. I will carry on asking people about it and as I said previously if I have to open the engine, I will replace the cam-chain and cam-chain tensioner.

Anyway now is winter time and very soon I'm going to stop using the bike, here in The Netherlands is also very cold, maybe one day I wake up missing the bike and I decided to open it, if this happen, be sure that I will be here asking for advises.

:D
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by Lasse » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:49 pm

Hello Hugomez - what you say sounds quite reasonable...
BUT - if I were you - I would try to locate an owner of precisely the same HONDA bike - and then compare!
This might bring you a step further, before you try to do the (not uncomplicated) job of changing the chain & adjuster for the valve-train.
Old bikes are always a challenge - & what is not killing you - just makes you stronger...

Lasse.

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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by hugomez » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:32 pm

Hi Lasse,

Right now I only know one person here in The Netherlands with the same bike, he live around 100km from me. He is restoring his bike, right now is completely apart, but he has already the engine finished and almost all the parts new or restored already, the only thing he don not have right now is time to work on the bike.

This is the only person I know, apparently this bike is very rare here in The Netherlands because was never imported, and apparently the few that are here, were imported a few years after manufactured.

Here there are many 4 stroke Honda classic of almost all capacity, a lot of 50cc, 125cc (2 cylinders), 200cc, 250cc, 350cc, 400cc, 500cc, 550cc and 750cc, but 100cc (monocylinder) as mine not many.

I'm in touch with the guy that has the bike like mine, I'll try to meet him and ask if he wouldn't mine one day to have a look and give me his opinion about this clicking noise.

I'll keep updating this post.

;)
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:33 pm

I do think we need something of a reality check here because all machinery makes noises to some degree; people perceive and react to them in different ways and for many reasons but not all noises are indicators of a problem.

I’ve listened to a selection very modern bikes passing in the street that were making mechanical howling noises like a Berserker with a red-hot poker inserted where the sun don’t shine but ridden by apparently sanguine riders! Presumably then it is a normal noise for those models but not one I’d want to live with.

Riders more accustomed to 2strokes might be more sensitive to the mechanical noises emanating from a 4stroke. My Vinnies for example have always sounded like a very large bucket of bolts but a 500cc Comet that can do over 80mph and always return in excess of 70mpg can’t be a complete wreck.

Change is the thing, listen for changes in the sound more than the sound itself as that is usually a warning.

For all that unresolved noises, particularly intermittent ones can be the absolute pits!

tony mooring
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by tony mooring » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:26 pm

The astronaut in his space ship heard a ticking noise and he said it was driving him mad.
It was O.K. though because it was a lunar tick (lunatic). :lol: :lol: :lol:

UHJ200
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Re: Very annoying clicking/ticking/buzzing electrical sound

Post by UHJ200 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:55 pm

Ohmygawd! Tony, that one don’t need a mooring it needs a perishing anchor!!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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