Clutch and engine position

Moto Rumi technical problems or solutions
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hugomez
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Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Hi,

I am trying to assemble new reinforced springs and clutch discs in the Bol D'Or, because the clutch was spinning a little bit in first gear, however I am a bit stuck right now trying to assemble it.

In the past I managed to do it several times without problem, however I always had the engine out of the scooter/motorcycle, allowing me to turn it into any desirable position.

Now I have the scooter on the bench and I do not want to lie it down to the side if possible, so I am trying to assemble to springs/clutch discs and clutch plates with the scooter in a vertical position, however it is extremely difficult as you can imagine.

I do not have the original Rumi special tool either. So to compress all, once in position, I will use two c-clamps.

Do you think that to keep the springs in place can I put some thick multipurpose grease on them?

I do not want to do this yet just in case the multipurpose grease is not good for the friction of the clutch.

What do you think?, Any idea that is not putting the scooter horizontal in the floor?

Thank you very much in advance.
Hugo :)
Moto-Rumi-Clutch-basket.jpg
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hugomez
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Well, after trying many times unsuccessfully, I decided to do it in the way I didn't want, however it has been the only possible way with the tools I have. Luckily no damage at all while the scooter was lying down.

Now the new clutch discs set and new reinforced springs are in place, looking forward to get good weather here to see if the problem is solved.

:D
Moto-Rumi-BolD'or-new-clutch-discs-&-springs-01.jpg
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greasy-fingers
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by greasy-fingers » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:02 pm

Hi Hugo, i only just saw this so a bit late now, it is as you say much easier with the engine on its side, but I have done it many times upright by using a dab of multipurpose grease to hold each spring in position, I usually change the crankcase oil as soon as practical afterwards just in case.

hugomez
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:18 pm

greasy-fingers wrote:Hi Hugo, i only just saw this so a bit late now, it is as you say much easier with the engine on its side, but I have done it many times upright by using a dab of multipurpose grease to hold each spring in position, I usually change the crankcase oil as soon as practical afterwards just in case.
Hi Graham,

I appreciate your reply, you clarify my question about the grease on the springs. I didn't want to try just in case that could cause a problem. Good to know that this would be a solution for the assembling.

Another question:

Did you ever experienced that after installing new clutch discs, they are so thick that even with the clutch lever fully compressed the clutch is still not released?

Well, this is what I am experiencing right now. I am worry because another member of the forum mentioned to me by email that sometimes had to use sandpaper in brand new discs because otherwise they were too thick and got stuck.
I have use this same brand of sets in two other Rumi without any problems.
Maybe starting the engine and make some kilometers on it, playing with the clutch lever would make it eventually work?
Have you ever experience this problem?
Just as a reminder, the springs are harder than the previous I had on the scooter, so the combination of new clutch discs and new harder springs maybe was not very good idea. I should maybe only change the springs, or change the discs, but not both at the same time.

Any thought?
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greasy-fingers
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by greasy-fingers » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:05 pm

I have not had this problem with a rumi clutch, but I have had to play around with plates to get clearance when converting lambretta,s from 4 to 5 plates on higher performance engines, regarding the springs - if the old ones have enough strength to stop the clutch from slipping in use they will be fine to re-use.

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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:26 pm

greasy-fingers wrote:I have not had this problem with a rumi clutch, but I have had to play around with plates to get clearance when converting lambretta,s from 4 to 5 plates on higher performance engines, regarding the springs - if the old ones have enough strength to stop the clutch from slipping in use they will be fine to re-use.
Hi Graham,

The reason because I change the springs and clutch discs is because from medium to high revs in first gear the clutch was slipping.

I do not know if the old springs with the new discs would solve the problem, or if the new spring with the old discs would also solve the problem, that is why I went for the full replacement.

The last thing I want to do is opening the engine again if possible. I think before doing that I will take a ride, play with the clutch lever while riding, and hope that eventually it will work, and if it doesn't, them I will open and change either the springs or the discs.

If anybody has a similar experience with a happy ending solving the problem while riding some kilometers, please let me know, them I will have some hope :lol:

Greets,
Hugo
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:14 pm

Hi,

Here I am again after removing the right side engine cover to see if I can solve the problem with the clutch.

Unfortunately during the upgrade of the forum, some replies in this topic were lost. If I remember correctly, in some replies somebody (I think Graham or Ian) mentioned about some clearance that must be seen between discs.

Can anybody let me know how I can be sure that the clutch discs are going to "release" the clutch properly?

Here I include some photos I just took. The first two is showing the basket, but in this position (with the cover of the basket out and without any compression to the springs) not clearance at all is visible between discs, as logically I understand is correct, so I guess in this position there is nothing I can check.

In the last three photos, I've put back the basket cover, and using two c-clamps I've compressed it a bit to see if throughout the cover hole is there any signal of clearance between discs, however I do not see much. How much should I compress the basket cover with the c-clamps?, How I know once the engine cover is in position, that the clutch lever is going to be able to compress as much as the c-clamps?

As you can see I have many questions, any help here?

Thank you very much in advance :)

WITHOUT BASKET COVER
Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-on-Basket-00.jpg
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Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-on-Basket-01.jpg
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WITH BASKET COVER ON plus two C-CLAMPS compressing
Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-on-Basket-02.jpg
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Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-on-Basket-04.jpg
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:26 pm

Beside my doubts in my previous reply, I have another doubt.

It is clear that the brand new reinforced springs together with the brand new set of clutch discs didn't work.

I have two options: Use the old used springs with the brand new clutch discs set, or ... use the brand new reinforced springs with a used set of clutch discs.

I do not know which option you guys think is better, but in case the best is to use used clutch discs (still usable) with the new set of springs, here I show the photos of two sets of clutch discs I have.

Set 01 is the one I had installed in the Bol D"or before I put the brand new set on it.
Set 02 was in another of my bikes before, I think it was in the Bicarburatore before I install on it a brand new set.

By the photos, which one do you think I should use, in case the option is to mount the brand new reinforced springs with the used clutch discs set?

Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-set-used-01-&-02.jpg
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Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-set-used-01-002.jpg
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Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-set-used-02-001.jpg
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Moto-Rumi-Clutch-discs-set-used-02-002.jpg
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greasy-fingers
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by greasy-fingers » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:59 pm

Hi Hugo, with the new thicker plates I expect you will need to compress the clutch all the way to see any gaps. When fully compressed you can check that the plates are not stuck together due to lack of clearance by carefully tweaking a flat screwdriver between the plates. Usually you will hear a slight click as they free from each other. I would try using either set of old plates with the new springs, but first I would de-glaze them by gently and evenly rubbing them on a sheet of medium abrasive paper laid on a sheet of glass or mirror. Make sure you remove any traces of abrasive grit, then soak them overnight in sae 30 or 40 oil. See you in Calvados - Hopefully you will be able to try out the Sei-Giorni if it is finished in time. Graham

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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:46 pm

greasy-fingers wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi Hugo, with the new thicker plates I expect you will need to compress the clutch all the way to see any gaps. When fully compressed you can check that the plates are not stuck together due to lack of clearance by carefully tweaking a flat screwdriver between the plates. Usually you will hear a slight click as they free from each other. I would try using either set of old plates with the new springs, but first I would de-glaze them by gently and evenly rubbing them on a sheet of medium abrasive paper laid on a sheet of glass or mirror. Make sure you remove any traces of abrasive grit, then soak them overnight in sae 30 or 40 oil. See you in Calvados - Hopefully you will be able to try out the Sei-Giorni if it is finished in time. Graham
Hi Graham, thanks for the explanation. I just did what you explained to me and now the 3 discs are soaking in SAE 30 oil. Tomorrow I will probably put all together again and hopefully everything will work fine.

About the Sei Giorni, it would be amazing to see it ready in Calvados. Either way (with or without Sei Giorni) is going to be great to meet there.

Thanks ;)
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by hugomez » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:58 pm

Done and working fine, at least on the bench.
I won't know if the old discs with the new reinforced springs is solving the former problem of the clutch spinning in high revs in 1st gear, until I test the scooter in the street, hopefully will perform as I want.

Thanks for the help ;)
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greasy-fingers
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Re: Clutch and engine position

Post by greasy-fingers » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Go easy on the clutch for a few miles, hopefully it will be fine.

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